How to get sales and marketing to work together. ft. Summer Poletti

Dave: One of the key concepts I'm passionate about is to make sure that marketing creates content that is actually useful to sales. In other words, I don't believe that the primary purpose of content is to generate traffic. Traffic by itself doesn't generate sales. In my opinion, content needs to educate, not sell prospects, about possible solutions to their problems.

And then explain why a company is a perfect guide to help them solve those problems. So content is a resource. It's a resource that needs to be leveraged by the sales team in their sales process. If sales doesn't use it, then I just don't see the value of producing it, But its quite difficult to get the team to open up and talk about specific questions and objections they encounter during their conversations with leads and prospects. So today I decided to bring in a sales expert who can help us marketers get our sales team to talk with us so we can create content that is actually useful. Hey there, Summer.

Why don't you give us a little brief introduction about yourself and then we can get started.

Summer: I was the generalist before it was popular to be a generalist. I have experience in customer service and operations. In PR and marketing and also in sales leadership and the beginnings of customer success back when we weren't even calling it customer success.

So right now what I focus on is helping people align all of those pillars in order to increase revenue and to do it without increasing budgets. So it, it just goes straight to the bottom line.

Dave: Very cool. And we worked on a previous project together where, um, I was kind of in the marketing role and you were in the sales leadership coaching role of, can I say coaching?

Summer: Yeah, yeah. That was back when I was working as a coach, and I got handed that assignment because I was the one coach on the team who had done work as a VP of Sales in the corporate world, and so that client wanted a fractional VP of Sales, so, yeah, it was, it was a little bit of both.

Dave: And that, that's one of the interesting things, because I also came from corporate America, is as, you know, taking the, the lessons learned of these large corporations and being able to filter it and kind of adapt it. To our small, medium sized businesses. I think that's a fascinating exercise.

Summer: Mm hmm. Indeed.

Dave: So cool for those.

Um, I'm going to go ahead and link, summer's LinkedIn profile and website in the transcript. But, um, why don't we go ahead and get started? So, I'm really excited to have you as a guest today because, Both of us believe that there is a huge opportunity for companies to accelerate the revenue growth.

If only they can get sales and marketing to work closely together. So today I want to chat with you about the three common objections that us marketers will face when we ask the sales team for time to sit down with us so we can create that [00:03:00] compelling sales enablement content.

Summer: I had a little bit of a deja vu when you sent that topic to me. Just remembering the teeth pulling on my side. So, um, just As a sales leader with marketing experience, I always had an appreciation for what marketing could do for an organization. So, you know, I was just blessed to have that in my background.

And I do remember The first time I attempted, and I'm going to say succeeded because I eventually got around this, working in tandem with sales and marketing. There's a new marketing leader in the organization wanting to make a splash and my team had just been struggling. We weren't getting enough leads.

The leads we were getting were garbage. The, the brochures just didn't, reflect what we were actually talking to clients about or what clients cared about. It was all just fluffy, top of funnel stuff. And I think it was more just out of, I don't want to say desperation, but my team was frustrated. They weren't making the kind of money they knew they could.

And it was like, okay, something's got to give. So this new marketer, Who wanted to make a splash, um, just started working with her, only just the two of us. And then when I started to bring my team along, there were three objections and we could go through that today. And I think that it's not just the marketers that will face these objections.

I think it's also the sales leaders who are going to drag their team along and align with marketing. So number one, the first thing I heard from my team is that it was a. A little bit of Marketing is here to generate leads. That's all they need to do. And a little bit of like, well, content is marketing's job.

That's not my job. Tell them just to do their job better. And then the second one from busy salespeople who have a quota looming over their head all the time, right? It was that they didn't have time. We don't have time to do this. We need to be out there connecting with our prospects on our partners and we need to be actively selling.

We don't have time to sit down and have another meeting with corporate. And then the third one. Was this lingering fear that if marketing started to get in the weeds a little more with sales That they would start to take credit for the deals And they weren't even really afraid of losing commission because that's not how the plan was structured.

But, um, anybody who's seen a sales guy ought to know that they love an attaboy almost as much as a check, right? So they were afraid that some head patting was going to be going on and that they weren't going to get all the accolades they were getting. So there you go. Content is marketing's job. We don't have time and then marketing is going to take credit.

Those, I think, are the top objections. Yeah. Mm

Dave: So it's, it's interesting when, I when I heard you say that, oh, it's contents marketing's job. It really reminds me a very, uh, siloed approach, right? Where in the past it was, it was a very linear sales funnel where it's like there's awareness, consideration, decision, and there was clear delineation between, you know, marketing's only in charge of awareness.

We will handle sales. Well, we will handle the consideration decision stage.

Um, what are your thoughts on that? Is that still that linear and that clear, or is it becoming blurry?

Summer: Oh my god, it is so blurry. So I know that you remember one of my favorite images that I showed to that client who was fighting us on, uh, on some of these initiatives where I believe that it's a Gartner image showing the buyer journey, not from the perspective of the sales organization, but from the perspective of what [00:07:00] buyers actually do.

And it doesn't follow a linear process of learn about a company, go to their website, click on the thing, get a sales demo, see the pricing, sign the contract, go to implementation. Like that's what we think of as a buyer journey. As a general process, but buyers are doing a lot of research engaging with somebody continuing to do research, do research to back up what that salesperson says, do research once you see the pricing to see if it's competitive, like they're just doing research all the time in the background, even when they're Meeting and engaged in a sales process with a salesperson.

And so I think that if, if we, if we expect people to follow the linear model, we're missing out on an awful lot more opportunities to educate. [00:08:00] And I think we're just, we're just sort of stuck maybe perhaps in this mindset that existed before social media and internet were so pervasive. You know, you used to have to rely upon a salesperson to give you information because you couldn't get it yourself.

It's, it's totally changed now, so I think it's just, it's kind of a leftover from a bygone era,

Dave: Yeah. So when, when we, when we talk to the sales team and they're saying, Oh no, you know, content writing is, is your job, not mine.

How, how can we help them understand that? You know, when prospects are in the, um, consideration and even the decision making stage, the lines have become blurry. They're not going to just, you Talk to the sales team, but they're going to be reading articles, reading case studies, um, that sort of thing.

How do we talk to the salespeople so that they can understand that, [00:09:00] you know, we're here from a marketing. So I look at everything with that marketing lens. We're here marketing. We're here to help you create assets. That can be used when, um, you know, as example, Oh, there, we have a great conversation. Let me send you an article that explains this further.

So you're getting it, not just from a verbal perspective, but also from a visual written content. How do we talk to the sales team to get them to understand that we want to approach and give our prospects multiple ways to consume this information?

Summer: I like that, and there is a number of reasons why that type of content works. What jumps to mind First is sales folks tend not to be the most detail oriented people. Uh, I am very guilty of that and tend to want to do things quickly. I'm going to get into DISC a little bit because that's I study that a lot, you know, it's, it's [00:10:00] sales job to learn about personalities and how people think and process information.

And so how your average salesperson processes and makes decisions is just very quick. And you need that people who are going to think on their feet, people who are going to stay busy. So I think you can tap into that, that busy salesperson mindset, which is really, you know, kind of, I'm, we're almost, Going into the second reason why you're gonna have some pushback here is like to tell them that it's going to help them.

It's going to help you because if we write a blog on one of the most common questions that you get asked, You get asked that question and you can forward the blog to the prospect and then you don't have to spend your time typing it out or getting on the call with them. It's just, it's like already done for you.

So if you can show them that it's going to speed up their work [00:11:00] and the paperwork side of their job and save them time. I think that's where you might be able to get some early wins with the sales folks on, on this particular topic.

Dave: Yeah. I love that concept that it's a, it's a time saver is going to help you communicate. One of the other things, um, I like to tell sales folks is that how I use content in my sales process, and that's, is I hate the dreaded, Hey, just checking in email. I absolutely abhor that type of email. It's the worst. right? It makes you feel, it makes me feel icky. So what I like being able to, 

Summer: No one wants to receive it.

Dave: yeah, no one wants to say, yeah, exactly. So where I like to use content is I'd say something like I'd send up you a blog article summer. And then if I haven't heard back from you from a few days later, I can, you know, instead of doing the, Hey, Summer, just checking in, I can say, Hey, Summer, I sent you this article on one of the questions you asked.

Do you have any questions on that? It promotes a communication, a dialogue,

Summer: Mm hmm. Mm 

Dave: as opposed to feeling like a sales call. It's just continuing the conversation kind of call. So that's one of the ways I like to use it in the sales process. It's to a. Avoid that dreaded, Hey, just checking in

it kind of goes on the concept. If you can create a reusable asset. So I I've seen sales teams, um, create PowerPoint decks.

And I'm like, whoa, this looks absolutely nothing like what's on the website or this is all

Summer: Oh my god, right? 

Dave: And they're like, yeah, because I, I, the stuff that is on the website's not useful to me.

So fine, I just, I'll just do it myself. And you know, sales teams, they're, they're not graphic designers. They're not, you know, communication content writers who know how to write copy. But so they're spending an inordinate amount of time trying to create this perfect deck that is probably for a deck of one for a specific prospect that can't be used.

For another. So I think the concept, if we can come together and understand what message needs to be communicated once, then let marketing, because marketing usually has access to those graphic designers or copywriters and create the, the website content and the website, know, assets that can then be leveraged in a PowerPoint deck, then you get the same communication, same messaging, just in different mediums.

And I think that can help them save time because like stop creating these one off PowerPoint decks and let's use like I would like to say a common language model. We're all speaking the same thing.

Summer: Yes. I love it. And now you've saved them time. Instead of you creating a PowerPoint deck every time you go into a meeting, you've got something that's Yes. That's what usable. So we're going to spend your time here instead of spending your time there. And I'm just, [00:14:00] I'm, I'm cringing remembering that because yes, we've all been there.

Uh, it's just, it is a disjointed buyer experience. And

Dave: good point.

Summer: it just, buyers, like, COVID changed everything. When we all sat at home and watched Amazon Prime and shopped on Amazon Prime or whatever, like, like, I just, I filter everything through the Amazon experience because that's just what consumers tend to want, is, I want it cheap, I want it good, I want it fast.

And I want to just have the same experience over and over again. And if you have a message on the website and then you talk to somebody and they say something different, and then you see a PowerPoint deck in a meeting and it's got different graphics, it's super confusing. And buyers are [00:15:00] less tolerant of that, even 

from small businesses, than they used to be.

Dave: That's a great point. 

Summer: there's a tangent, but oh my god, you cannot afford to do that. No. Yeah.

Dave: If we're not seeing the same message in the different mediums, it does tend to cause confusion. So your, your last objection that, that sales gives, and I haven't heard this one before, so I'm super curious to learn more about this, is that marketing is going to take credit for all of our deals.

Summer: Yes. 

Dave: And immediately, even though you explained before, I'm like, but marketing, we don't get comped on sales. We don't have a commission. We don't have a quota. That's not how marketing departments typically get compensated or bonused.

I'd love to hear more about this.

Summer: Yeah, and I mean it comes from a real life situation so You know, I can't make this up Dave It was really I think this objection kind of came Not in the beginning of aligning with marketing, but it was like in the middle When we're starting to see some wins, we're starting to market within the deal or mid funnel marketing, whatever fancy schmancy marketing lingo you want to use.

And you know, this is when I'm meeting with marketing regularly and we're discussing, here's our big deals that are in the pipeline. How can you, what, what can we do to, you know, sometimes we would create one piece of content that was just for this, Actually, we won them, so they were a client. But, you know, with that person in mind, and we might put it out there, but we're hoping like it's really kind of created for an audience of one, right?

Um, and then also just doing some extra social media nurturing on their account because really, They don't really care about your stuff. They care about their own stuff, right? So, um, just warming up the prospect from all sorts of different angles, and we won the deal, and it was huge. I mean, the company where I worked with this little company in financial services, less than a hundred employees.

And we landed, you know, a fortune 100 account. It was just, you know, and when marketing was like, yeah, they're high fiving me. And they're, and they're telling people, we won the deal. Like the salesperson who was in charge of that was so mad. And he was like, excuse me. You know, I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

Like, guess what? If the pro so if It was a referral to give a little bit of background color. It was a referral from somebody he had known for years, you know, a personal referral partner of his. And he's like, well, they, that was, you know, that's totally my deal. That came through my referral. And I was like, okay, but they went to the website, right?

Well, yeah, they went to the website. If they went to the website, Even only once and they still called you marketing gets some credit. And then we could show back that they, they visited the website a whole bunch. They consumed a whole bunch of content. Like, so getting people to understand that if you win together, you have to celebrate together, that was harder than I thought it was going to be. And nobody was taking money out of anybody's pocket, but it's like, I mean, a lot of sales is bravado and status and confidence. And, um, that was just a piece of the puzzle that I didn't anticipate seeing like you until I saw it and it was like, wait, what?

You won the deal. Who cares who gets credit? Like you got to give Scottie Pippen a high five. All right. Yeah. Yep.

Dave: definitely see from like a, uh, I don't want to say an ego, but from like an emotional standpoint, you know, I'm sales. I closed it. I, get that we're, we're, that's going to be, um, interesting as we move forward. And this is, I'm going off on a slight tangent, but with, um, account based marketing. Right. Coming in more into focus that you can't just use, uh, and just, you can't just throw spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. You really have to have laser focused, um, Marketing targets and messaging, um, with the whole ABM account based marketing, where you're targeting only, you know, a dozen profile clients, you're like, I want to get this, you know, marketing is going to play a critical piece in that sales process.

And you know, we're when the [00:20:00] company lands, one of those ABM accounts, we're just as happy because we know that we were able to help sales. Close that deal through great content, through great messaging, through consistent messaging.

Summer: Yeah, and you just have to understand that you high five each other and That's that's okay, you know

Dave: Yeah. It's, it's okay to celebrate sales. You get the commission, you get it all 

Summer: Yeah, it's a team sport and I feel like you know marketing is special teams.

Dave: Let's, let's, let's see if we can kind of wrap, bring it all around because you're talking about a team. And we, we started this whole conversation where sales and marketing, they're in silos. So, um, do you have any last words of advice in, in terms of how do you bring sales and marketing who have traditionally operated in these silos? Any words of advice on how to start bringing these teams together? 

Summer: Um Let's see. So I I tend to think that everything starts at the top, be it good or be it bad. It's the CEO's responsibility. Um, so if you have a CEO, owner, founder, or whatever you want to call yourself, it's kind of on you to get these folks to talk. If you have a CEO, owner, founder, who is, um, maybe they're busy fundraising or whatnot, you know, maybe as a sales leader or as a marketing leader, you're going to have to take it upon yourself. Yeah,

Dave: I love that you bring that  topic out. So it's not necessarily, it's a process or we have to say, Hey, head of marketing or head of sales, you, you, as outside consultants coming in, this really requires a, a different mindset from the top leadership, right? That, that has to, there's a cultural change and [00:22:00] cultural shift.

So it's not going to happen instantaneously. Um, but it has to come from the top because we are asking sales and marketing to work differently than how a lot of us have traditionally Approached it in within silos. There's a clear, like MQL marketing qualified lead that gets translated to an SQL sales qualified lead.

And if it doesn't pan out, it gets put back to MQL. So there's these silos that we've been traditionally used to operate in and to work differently to have sales and marketing work as a team. It does require a mind shift and coming from the top. Yeah, I think that's a great point.

Summer: it should. And you're not going to, especially if you've been in those meetings where you're pointing fingers at each other and it is a tough, it is a tough market right now for everybody. So if there has been a meeting where the numbers don't look great and the CEO's kind Asking like what's up and there's one person pointing at the other and one [00:23:00] person pointing at the other usually it's it usually it comes down to sales saying like well marketing isn't giving enough leads or marketing you know the leads are junk and then marketing saying oh we provide a ton of leads you guys just don't ever follow up on them that happens all the time so if we're in a spot where there's a little bit of animosity and why wouldn't there be again it's really tough right now it has to start with just And understanding we're on the same team.

We're both here for the same reason. Let us figure out a way to work better together. And then you're not going to, you're just going to build little, like little baby steps.

Dave: I love it. It's a, it's really go team revenue, not go team sales, go team marketing is go team revenue.

Summer: I love it. 

Dave: I really like what you're saying. Very cool. Well, thank you very much again, Summer. It's, I love being able to bring in experts like yourself, because when I look at things I look at from a marketing lens, so bring someone like you [00:24:00] with a sales lens to help us under us, marketers understand the psychology.

That goes on behind the scenes and how we can start bringing the sales and marketing team together. It's super insightful. So thank you very much.

Summer: No, thank you for having me.

Dave: And folks, don't forget to check out summer's podcasts. Uh, she has her own podcast running. You can find that on our website. And again, I will link that in the transcript.

Thank you everyone for listening and spending time with us.

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Connect with Summer Poletti on Linked in.

and check out her blogs and podcast